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Post by Zeritia on May 25, 2016 17:18:28 GMT
Composite Cinematic Optimus Prime
Prophet
Full Frontal
VS Garnet
Etrigan
Tengu Shredder
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Post by GuardianAngel1911-Admin on May 26, 2016 1:51:03 GMT
Does "cinematic" Optimus include the animated movie?
That said team magic seems to have a bit of a firepower/scope advantage with Etrigan having wrestled with guys like Superman and Tengu Shredder having planet wide reality warping essentially, I mean the Turtles needed mystical superpowers+the ability to turn into giant turtle dragons to fight him and needed their numbers advantage to win against his dragon form. And he pimp slapped the fuck out of the resident Superman expy.
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Post by Zeritia on May 26, 2016 2:27:52 GMT
I was meaning any and all cartoons included. I can switch someone out on Team Science for someone more appropriate. That and decided to go a little 'Deep' to find different characters. At most IIRC TS warped a city.
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Post by GuardianAngel1911-Admin on May 26, 2016 3:29:54 GMT
His power was spreading and had the Turtles not gotten lucky would have engulfed the entire world, he literally only lost because of PIS and sheer luck, the numbers advantage I mentioned included the entirety of the Purple Dragons, the Justice Force (the Justice League expies), the Earth Protection Force's troops, the Foot Clan, the Ninja Acolytes, and they also needed Hamato Yoshi's ghost to show up to help them by seriously wounding him forcing him to pull the demonizing energy back into himself and had to rely on Karai's connection as the most recent Shredder mantle holder to drain some of his power away from him.
New York City was the most immediately effected but it was spreading further. Dude was freaking OP for the series which is why when they hinted he was going to possibly show up for a Shredder Battle Royale in the Back to the Future Cyber Arc the Turtles were terrified of that possibility since..they literally had to throw everything and the Kitchen Sink + the ghost of the Kitchen Sink's great^100 grandfather to kill his ass the first time.
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Post by Zeritia on May 26, 2016 3:32:52 GMT
hmm perhaps up the ante with a much bigger science based badass then prohpet? I guess if I want to, I could replace Prophet with the likes of Alphamon and just go down(or up) from there.
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Post by GuardianAngel1911-Admin on May 26, 2016 3:37:31 GMT
Alphamon is waaay too high. Dude shoots Big Bangs like machinegun rounds. If all animated Optimus Primes count and its basically composite Optimus he might be enough on his own, some Optimus Prime's have been OP as fuck. So long as its someone who can survive being thrown into orbit since...Tengu Shredder threw Silver Sentry (afformentioned Superman expy) into orbit like he was a fucking baseball.
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Post by Zeritia on May 26, 2016 3:41:44 GMT
But does he really though? Does Alphamon ever shoot big bangs like a machine gun? Because I keep seeing you say stuff like this for digimon yet I never see you post stuff for it. Some proof would be nice.
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Post by GuardianAngel1911-Admin on May 26, 2016 4:08:21 GMT
Before I get into addressing that I'm curious how deep you really want to go down the rabbit hole of Digimon's power hierarchy and where all of this stuff comes from. Because its a complex muddled confused web of omniverses and multiverses with absolutely no logic given for power levels shown in any particular continuity where the most powerful beings casually annihilate hundreds of thousands of universes just by existing and Alphamon is a flea next to them in spite of his weird firepower. I can explain it but its really complicated and makes understanding who can destroy what in Marvel and DC or even DBZ look simple by comparison.
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Post by Zeritia on May 26, 2016 4:12:43 GMT
I decided to try to wrap my head around how the Fate Series functions with all it's fanciful wording, what's true and what's false. I think I can take the explanation for a digital becoming so powerful to that scale. I'd rather you just show me clips or something because I watched that one Digimon Movie where Alphamon made his television debut all those years ago, then he/she suddenly pops up everywhere like a goddamn groundhog. by the way I'm an asshole so I decided to look up if Alphamon was in Cyber Sleuth.......That Alphamons a grill???
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Post by GuardianAngel1911-Admin on May 26, 2016 5:38:33 GMT
Okay well I'll do my best (unfortunately in spite of appearing in two tv continuities now clips of the Alphamon's that are called as using Big Bangs are nigh impossible to find as are most of the game stuff, the only game I personally have access to is Cybersleuth) And since some of this involves spoilers for different shows and stuff and on the off chance someone here hasn't seen them and doesn't want spoilers and so I can respond to the Cybersleuth spoiler I'm going to put this in spoilers To start with I'm going to just say flat out Digimon power scaling is insane because there's no real rule for how the different multiverses really work as far as are there more powerful ones and such and feats, the normal automatic fallback, aren't the most reliable definer of a characters power. Lore is tricky as well as descriptions can vary from verse to verse. For the best example lets look at WarGreymon, in Adventure 01 02 and 03 he's provably somewhere between city and continent destroying on average. If you take Lore into account his Terra Force is at planck Temperatures due to clashing with Metal Garourumon's attack that has a temperature of absolute zero...which is reasonably logical as both were the only ones able to hurt the final Adventure 01 Badguy Apocalymon whose most powerful attack, and the only attack from anyone on the battlefield on the time that could have defeated him without TK and Kari getting their mega's suddenly that could kill him, was an attack that would have destroyed the Digital Universe and the Universe of humans which the Digidestined with their power contained and pushed back in on him. There was also the time MegaKabuterimon, an Ultimate, seemingly destroyed a planet while fighting with Vademon but that feat is...wonky at best. So in Adventure we have a few feats that could theoretically mean WarGreymon, one of the more powerful Mega's of the team is most likely above planet level even though they've never shown that in Adventure.
Or at least not Adventure itself. If you've watched Adventure 02 the big bad MaloMyotismon was again going to destroy both universes, only this time without killing himself and required the combined power of all the Digidestined on Earth. Before I go further though I also need to bring up Gallantmon from Tamers, aka Digimon season 3. In this series Takato dark Digivolves Guilmon to the evil Megidramon whose mere existence rips a hole in the barrier between universes in a way that lets everyone on Earth know shits going bad and could have destroyed both had his bloodlusted rampage continued unchecked, he was even thrashing one of the 7 Demon Lords in Beelzemon before Beelzemon absorbed more data and became more powerful..Megidramon is an alternative form of Chaos Gallantmon (which you see depends on you) and is an equal and opposite of Gallantmon (hence why Chaos Gallantmon is Megidramon's alt form) why bring up someone from Tamers causing damage to two universes by existing and having the ability to destroy both if he had stayed bloodlusted? Well that requires a lateral yet foreward move in the timestream to the Digimon Xros young hunters leaping through time anime where the Legendary Heroes show up from past seasons. This is where Wargreymon and MaloMyotismon both also come back into play.
Quartzmon who was close to becoming the most powerful Digimon in existence (Gaiamon who makes even ZeedMilleniummon who destroys thousands of universes by coming into existence look like nothing in comparison) and is creating an army of Venom and MaloMyotismon's to combat this the Mentor of the Anime Xrosverse Digidestined summons the previous protagonists and their Digimon to kick some ass. This includes both Tai and Agumon and Takato and Guilmon. Agumon as WarGreymon easily destroys three MaloMyotismon's with a single Terra Force, and Takato and Guilmon fused into Gallantmon later destroys 4 with a single super attack and his full power unleashed Crimson Mode slaughters them without even needing to use super attacks he just flies forward and casually slices them with his sword. As easily as Adventure Omnimon does in fact.
Now here's where things get more complicated..just like Pokemon Digimon can vary in stats based on partners and what they go through. And also whether their partner is a Tamer or Digidestined. Generally a Digidestined's Digimon at its strongest is going to pack more punch than the Tamer equivalent, unless shit like Burst Modes, Fusion and or Fusion Digivolutions, DNA Digivolutions, Biomerge Digivolutions, and Spirit Digivolutions get involved then everything can be thrown off kilter. This is why there is so much fluctuation between the various Digimon mediums and why it seems so inconsistent, that and usually the heroes don't go as all out because they don't want to destroy the planet (although in a way they kinda do during Cyber Sleuth). So the Digidestined trained Palmon in Adventure has vastly better stats than the Tamer trained Lalamon in Data Squad all the way to their Mega's which they share, Rosemon. Adventure Rosemon is capable of matching Imperialdramon Fighter Mode in a beam struggle, Imperialdramon FM being capable of destroying a planet with his beam, and even as Palmon is able to survive Imperialdramon Dragon Modes attacks and considering she is drawing from a Digidestined's unlimited fighting spirit hopes dreams etc can potentially grow even more powerful should the Digivice channel enough power into her. In theory of course. It sort of works like a Servants Mana reserves in a way, the more mana they have access to from their Master the more they can do and the more often they can do it. Digimon have a similar principle with their Digidestined and Tamer, more so the Digidestined usually but it's more a matter of semantics really and I can discuss the Digidestined vs Tamer thing later if you want.
Now with that in mind we should note that most of the time inconsistencies between incarnations of Digimon can be influenced by their Partner as well as the kind of reserves their Partner can give. The kind of threat also has something to do with it as those who become Digidestined or Tamers are chosen specifically to fight a specific threat usually (Data Squad and both Xros seasons and the mangas of similar concepts, as well as Cybersleuth..in some ways anyway, are less chosen more sign up for the job get caught up in it) and and are able to call on the power needed for that threat, with the power accessible generally increasing as the threat does. Though this rule doesn't always apply as there are exceptions in both directions.
Now as for Alphamon we need to look at several things. 1 the fact that Alphamon usually only shows up when the other Royal Knights need to be slapped in the head and reminded of their goals (X-Evolution and Cyber Sleuth) and 2 The purpose of the Royal Knights as a third piece in the balance between the Olympos XII of the other Digimon Omniverses that Yggdrasil has no control over, and as Yggdrasil's own counter to various threats to the Omniverse and various Multiverses within that. During Cyber Sleuth the infinite multiverse of the Cyber Sleuth story crosses over with the infinite multiverses of the ReDigitize Multiverse and the Dawn/Dusk Multiverse due to various crisis that threaten all of them. ReDigitize is mostly involved in the primary story while Dawn/Dusk gets involved in the side story with the 7 Demon Lords with balance needing to be restored to stop them from destroying the multiverse..which while important is a little less relevant here just getting the point of the Royal Knights and Olympos XII as the guardians of various Multiversal Balances noted.
During Cyber Sleuth the main story, and I'm hoping spoilers are okay since they are unavoidable in helping me explain this, the main monsters, the Eaters take control of the Yggdrasil King Drasil/Core and 7D6 Avatars of the Cyber Sleuth realms. Yggdrasil is the god of the primary Omniverse of Digimon and is unrivaled in power as the server with the Olympos XII has no equivalent of Yggdrasil (implications of this being unknown). In order to save everything Alphamon (I can explain how they became a human woman if you like) Omnimon Gaiomon and Diaboromon as well as 3 PC Digimon fight their way through 5 7D6 Avatars (which are normally universal but are believed to have been stronger than normal due to the Eaters influence, how much stronger is hard to say) to the Mid-High Multiversal Corrupted Drasil/Core Avatar. Now canonically the Player's three Digimon here are the three starter Digimon's Mega forms so Rosemon Craniumon (one of the Royal Knights) and MegaGargomon. All of whom are max leveled and thus max stated or close to it as otherwise there is no chance of success (hell its not an easy fight even with everyone maxed though far from the hardest fight of the game) so the canon team that defeated the corrupted Drasil and hard reset the Cybersleuth multiverse consisted of 3 of the stronger Royal Knights two of them being among the most powerful Royal Knights of all (there are 12, 13 if Imperialdramon Paladin Mode is counted, Alphamon and Omnimon are in the top four with Examon and Jesmon and Craniumon is around the upper middle with Gallantmon not far behind them.
In Digimon Decode an Alphamon alongside his partner Taiga were able to defeat a 7D6 Avatar that had been upgraded to multiversal.
Then WarGreymon pops up again to throw more monkey wrenches into the power level pool. In one of the more recent games Lucemon Falldown Mode was the primary villain and threatened the multiverse (whether he meant the specific multiverse of that game, the entirety of the Digimon reality, or just the specific two universes that the story immediately took place in ie the human and digital universes is unknown) and the protagonists WarGreymon defeats him in a one on one fight (and is also capable of defeating an Apocalymon in a one on one fight in the Colosseum)
Even the weakest variation of Lucemon Falldown Mode in Frontier was able to bust a moon with two piledrivers.
Then we have VictoryGreymon (a subspecies of War Greymon) defeated Barbamon merged with the local Yggdrasil Drasil core and damaging NEO in Digimon next. NEO having been able to destroy the existing universe, create his own universe, then destroy his new universe and restore the old one to its state before its destruction with no strain of power. And my head is starting to hurt now....
I've been trying to find and compile a lot of these feats and such but haven't had much luck as many of them are cited to games that little information exists of online or mangas with no chapters mentioned meaning I'd have to read possibly hundreds of chapters to find them.
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Post by GuardianAngel1911-Admin on May 26, 2016 5:40:15 GMT
Also if you like I can discuss the original ZeedMilleniummons Creation which throws even more monkey wrenches into things.
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Post by GuardianAngel1911-Admin on May 26, 2016 5:44:00 GMT
Oh also Alphamon has the Alpha Inforce. With the Alpha InForce he can repeat course of action/history, so only he's aware how many strikes he can deal, simply put, he can deal infinite amount of blows in the instant. He can also manipulate and absorb data, teleport, heal himself, among other things. Which is how the machinegun thing actually works sorry forgot to mention that in my discussion of Alphamon. Like I said head was hurting.
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Post by Zeritia on May 26, 2016 15:55:52 GMT
I kind of want clips/Images/Quotes. On stuff like that because I feel like that seems way too high of a scale for Digimon, because the way you're explaining it to me is that the high end digimon could apparently take on Elder God Demonbane.....Which I extremely doubt.
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Post by GuardianAngel1911-Admin on May 26, 2016 22:26:29 GMT
Well Demonbane is one of the first things that comes up when I type ZeedMilleniummon vs into Google, him and Living Tribunal.. Here's NEO destroying a universe i.imgur.com/11SoY7q.jpgi.imgur.com/AwC1b3G.jpgi.imgur.com/lDc443J.jpgi.imgur.com/Qcg0dLa.jpg- After the Digidestined followed him to his universe he became larger than galaxies and merged with his newly created universe i.imgur.com/NylrqUf.jpgi.imgur.com/M7R0y2s.jpg- Victory Greymon stabbing him i8.mangapicgallery.com/r/newpiclink/digimon_next/25/cc4c257bc9e3dd1402371e537b6215d3.jpeg---------------------------- Like I said before clips are hell to find but here's Episode 34 where WarGrowlmon Digivolves to Megidramon starting at 19:19, 20:06 they say his Digital Hazard will affect the Real World too followed by a beam of scarlet energy piercing through into the real world animetv.at/watch/digimon-tamers-episode-34.htmlIn around 4:34 in epixode 35 we actually see the Digital World of the Tamers multiverse begin cracking and breaking apart from his presence and he's outright stated to be a threat to the Digital World 6:19 we see still more beams of energies caused by Megidramons existence to pierce through even the upper layers of the Digiverse to cross the barrier to Earth (the green sphere thing) animetv.at/watch/digimon-tamers-episode-35.htmlAnd according to the official Digimon Reference book "Although it is a rare species that isn't even known to be extant, and its very existence is a "Digital Hazard", its powers were sealed away by some sort of "force". However, it is said that a great amount of damage will be exerted on the Digital World when its powers are awakened." Digital World in this case refers to the parallel universe existing alongside the human universe In the case of Tamers its a bit more complicated. As the Digital World existed as layers of mini-verses (the Layers of the Net they mention) the layer the battle with Megidramon occurs on the deepest level the original core of the Digital World and furthest away from the human universe. MilleniumMon the fusion of the Adventure 02 Kimeramon and Adventure 01 Machindramon who would eventually become Zeed warped time and destroyed it to create a new time (which means destroying the previous universe to create a new one, for some reason Digimon writers like to use past present and future to describe different universes) www.loungeforums.com/i/embed/04fc63699395459f2a14947e21cada70-1/http%253A%252F%252Fi.imgur.com%252FhcSqZ.pngwww.loungeforums.com/i/embed/0aa1cf0c8142991417f6c6229aa9f75c-1/http%253A%252F%252Fi.imgur.com%252FpH7Bh.pngwww.loungeforums.com/i/embed/83e9fa5c8aaa3c03ee33046a478f9702-1/http%253A%252F%252Fi.imgur.com%252FxYkAv.pngwww.loungeforums.com/i/embed/e4955d03a792fc56c2ff19457df3c568-1/http%253A%252F%252Fi.imgur.com%252FobMu6.pngwww.loungeforums.com/i/embed/c4384b93dc763ada9cffc1802691104b-1/http%253A%252F%252Fi.imgur.com%252F7Gt7D.pngwww.loungeforums.com/i/embed/24b2f198d70dfe4386d2287e77789e05-1/http%253A%252F%252Fi.imgur.com%252FXLajm.pngwww.loungeforums.com/i/embed/3eda43fa678bc346d2d5d0d1c629b870-1/http%253A%252F%252Fi.imgur.com%252FxFC0c.pngwww.loungeforums.com/i/embed/6fe9f89274be33e5ed55710d8550ad78-1/http%253A%252F%252Fi.imgur.com%252F90v9S.pngwww.loungeforums.com/i/embed/3ea85bd05c7cdfcab66859b58db030bd-1/http%253A%252F%252Fi.imgur.com%252FHtNzS.pngwww.loungeforums.com/i/embed/439e7eb08a4914aa66f98930896b0060-1/http%253A%252F%252Fi.imgur.com%252FLVVv3.pngwww.loungeforums.com/i/embed/439e7eb08a4914aa66f98930896b0060-1/http%253A%252F%252Fi.imgur.com%252FLVVv3.pngwww.loungeforums.com/i/embed/cc1379e7f9e58f1455cd5180be9e56df-1/http%253A%252F%252Fi.imgur.com%252F8PoY2.pngwww.loungeforums.com/i/embed/c1634f633455aacf4954e0363ecec0be-1/http%253A%252F%252Fi.imgur.com%252FY11ai.pngwww.loungeforums.com/i/embed/48fba060b5031b9584e1c26fcbe33cb8-1/http%253A%252F%252Fi.imgur.com%252Fs7XBE.pngwww.loungeforums.com/i/embed/ab09990f6f3b34a06e36492819406f6e-1/http%253A%252F%252Fi.imgur.com%252F07bOK.pngwww.loungeforums.com/i/embed/05a4a098f0a964fbe4de73b0ddc292bd-1/http%253A%252F%252Fi.imgur.com%252FvlE9k.pngwww.loungeforums.com/i/embed/7b77eaa68dcbe1edc0227d841ec4d3fe-1/http%253A%252F%252Fi.imgur.com%252F0txb8.pngwww.loungeforums.com/i/embed/ce76be79f639b025cfa6d7c34fbf9cd8-1/http%253A%252F%252Fi.imgur.com%252FJ6qrV.pngwww.loungeforums.com/i/embed/5eb9a461bb7cc866f860202c94484387-1/http%253A%252F%252Fi.imgur.com%252FXbjev.pngAnd he still had to digivolve to MoonMilleniummon before he could digivolve to ZeedMilleniummon with these shenanigans eventually leading to Ryo moving to the Tamers universe in order to protect his friends and family from Zeed who had now become his Digimon - Here's the reference book on Zeed "Flying freely between space and time, it is a king of evil that is still trying to destroy all eras and worlds." And here's some discussion of one of the XW versions of Zeed (a weaker clone of the original Adventure one) " UlforceV-dramon: When the red-black two-headed dragon conquers the sky... UlforceV-dramon: Life and death, heaven and earth, existence and nothingness, past and future.... UlforceV-dramon: And flames that convert all data (useful information) into noise (useless information) will cover the world. UlforceV-dramon: Although many souls wander about, longing to be put to rest... UlforceV-dramon: They will just be eaten by the dragon, to fuel a new era of chaos... UlforceV-dramon: The two universes crush each other, together with their respective griefs... UlforceV-dramon: Most likely giving rise to a long, grey era where not a single ray of light or flake of darkness exists. Taiki: (A...an image is being projected directly into my head...!) Taiki: (Does this mean...that everything just gets destroyed...!!?) UlforceV-dramon: The prediction of the end being told by God... " Where things get wonkier is that some Digital Worlds contain multiple universes including the world of humanity like in the Xros manga www.loungeforums.com/i/embed/f5c1d046455947a494142a0f4e052182-1/http%253A%252F%252Fi3.mangareader.net%252Fdigimon-xros-wars%252F11%252Fdigimon-xros-wars-4052373.jpgAnd Cyber Sleuth confirmed the infinite Multiverse of Digimon and hinted at a Megaverse i.imgur.com/NfMegOw.png?1i.imgur.com/vv5PI5X.png?1i.imgur.com/eSu7D4D.png?1
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Post by GuardianAngel1911-Admin on May 26, 2016 22:52:01 GMT
Cyber Sleuth also reveals things about the Demon Lords youtu.be/Mipw7hfWgJs?t=19starting at :19 in we meet one of the main characters of Digimon ReDigitize Decode who fought her universes variations of the Demon Lords, and well...as it says at 1:26 "Their power is beyond imagining, so much that they exist simultaneously in all parallel worlds." and by destroying them in one world Sayo "granted them strength in every other."
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